There has been much talk lately concerning the topic of discussion on Monday April 14th, namely that of inter-faith marriage.
I feel I must defend myself and also speak a little more rationally on this subject than is customary for me.
First off, I said Orthodox don’t as a rule marry outside the faith; there is a large difference between the words don’d and can’t. Secondly as was stated by Katie over at So Joyful this matter is also, in most instances, left up to the Priest and Bishop of the Orthodox Believer. And that being said, just because you have done it, doesn’t make it right or accepted on a pan-orthodox level.
I think that we are really missing the point here though. My good friend James linked to a response given by Fr. John Matusiak from the OCA question and answer section. I would put forth that his response only supports my claim more than disproves it.
It is indeed possible for a Catholic to marry in the Orthodox Church without converting but agreeing to raise the children in the Orthodox Faith. I would kindly recommend that you speak with the priest at the Orthodox parish in which you plan to be married, who will be happy to assist you further.
Here you can plainly see that Father is saying sure its possible, but only if they meet these requirements, which upon examination are such that if the husband or wife that is Roman is not Roman enough to want there children to inherit thier faith then they really aren’t very Roman… are they?
Furthermore, Father goes on to say that even then it should be brought before the Priest, which of course implies that it will be brought before his Bishop. And it is also worthy of note that this small exchange concerns a Roman Catholic, our schizmatic cousins. As with a lot of rubrics and dogma in Orthodoxy the Roman is always treated differently than merely a pagan (ie non-christian) or Protestant (ie SuperCaliFragiSchizmaticExpealiDocious- Christian). Take the sacrament of Crismation. A Roman convert to Orthodoxy is given an abreviated crismation, whereas the protestant is fully crismated. This is done as a way of honoring the common origins and shared history of the two oldest Christian Churches, as well as a way of looking forward to a time when East and West will once again enjoy full communion.
And lastly my point still stands that most Orthodox Faithful could not even fathom being joined to another who did not share thier beliefs and values; the wedding ceremony in an Orthodox Church is a crowning ceremony, the man and the woman are given the Crown of Martyrdom, in essence they accept martyrdom for the sake of the other. There are no vows, and no legal jargon thrown around as in so many of todays Evangelical Churches. They are to be a living icon of the relationship between Christ the Bridegroom and the Church his Bride.
Well that is all for now. As always the lines are open and operators are standing by, so tell me what you agree and disagree with.
Stroll on over and visit James
March 1, 2007
Actually your exact words at Katie’s blog were, “An Orthodox Christian cannot marry a non-Orthodox in an Orthodox Church.”
I was visiting an Orthodox home not long ago and I was allowed to take part in the family evening prayers. It was wonderful, and that is what I hope and pray God will grant me one day; to have my own Orthodox family with which to pray that is.
Also, the book that Fr. David uses in premarital counseling (with the Siskars and with that couple who come from Ohio once a month) says the non-Orthodox Christian must be baptized by a legitimate Christian body (i.e., Baptist, Methodist, Anglican, etc.).
Why I got so upset is that we’re two weeks away from making a huge step, and if there is such a rule in place I needed to have known about it nine months ago because that would affect my decision. You said another Orthodox priest told you that about no mixed marriages in the Orthodox Church. Was he a canonical or EOC? The Siskars said that the EOC was stricter on a lot of things than the canonical churches and that they might not have allowed mixed marriages. But now that I’ve gained my senses I’ll say that both the people I know who have been Orthodox for several years (including Carol) say that mixed marriages are not forbidden by the Orthodox. Lord willing I will be married again one day, and Lord willing to an Orthodox woman. If not and I end up in a relationship with a Baptist or Methodist that begins to manifest the communion of marriage, then I will take it to my archbishop via my priest, and we’ll see. If the relationship is good and manifests true communion, then I’m sure there will be no problems. If there are things about the relationship that Fr. D and the Matushka see that aren’t good, then he will Lord willing say, “No, this isn’t something I can bless.” But her particular brand, so I’ve found from my research, will most likely not affect the outcome. Lord willing she will be Orthodox.
My question is, why would Basil ever consider marrying a non-Orthodox woman. He’s flirted with a few of them if I’m not mistaken. If he wanted to marry one and Fr. D. couldn’t/wouldn’t bless it, then he would either separate himself from her or marry her under pain of excommunication in another church. Perhaps this is a question for Fr. David this Sunday. Of course marriage between two Orthodox Christians is preferred, but in the words of Fr. David (about other things), we’re not Roman Catholic. And of course I have read several places that the Orthodox Church will not tolerate a marriage between an Orthodox Christian and a non-Christian unless they were married before the EO party became Orthodox (i.e., someone from our church who’s married to a … Hindu or something?).
The reason I got so upset is this could affect me in a serious way. I still would like to know if the priest you heard that from was canonical or not, because that could make all the difference in the world.
Stroll on over and visit Chris J. Davis
March 1, 2007
Okay, again. I said that they couldn’t get married in an Orthodox Church, adn other than the exception of the Roman Catholic I would challenge you to find me an example of it happening. I was mistaken in forgetting the Roman’s but I was speaking at the time to my PROTESTANT best friend and Roman Catholocism never entered my mind.
And the Priest wsa canonical, but that shouldn’t really matter to you, since you live by what your Priest and Archbishop say… I would go ask them.
Stroll on over and visit James
March 1, 2007
Check your e-mail. I just sent you fowards of e-mails. Basil was upset when he found out that Cozy Cafe girl was engaged. Why? If he couldn’t marry her (since she isn’t Orthodox) then why would it matter?
Stroll on over and visit Chris J. Davis
March 1, 2007
I did check my email and sent you a response. And as you have once said, and Father for that matter, you can find anything on the internet to support your argument…
But seriously as one of the email responses said they had to get special dispensation from the Bishop, and had to alter the service, so it wasn’t a real Orthodox Wedding, there is more in my email.
As for Basil, who knows why he does anything he does? I would venture to say that he was hoping to convert her th Orthodoxy eventually, which as I stated in my email is a sucky way to go into a marriage. And if he really wants to be a Priest, I would imagine he can’t really marry anyone who isn’t Orthodox, hard to be a Matushka and not be Orthodox, so the argument is a little futile.
Stroll on over and visit James
March 1, 2007
I sent you a response/apology. Yes Chris, it’s discouraged. Okay, so what now? I may be single for the rest of my life. I have a lot of thinking to do in the next two weeks I guess.
Stroll on over and visit Chris J. Davis
March 1, 2007
Why rethink? Trust in God, if we believe that we give all these things back to him, for they are his to begin with, then why ever despair that he will be a good steward of them?
Give your need for companionship and doubt in this area to God fully. And you will see how things change; I speak from experience.
Stroll on over and visit Mr. Hibbity Gibbity
March 1, 2007
Alrighty. Granted, I’m not Orthodox, but couldn’t this be a situation of differing interpretations?
This is why I have a problem with the strict, rigid, ‘religiousness’ of organized faith. Didn’t Christ come to set us free from the law, not hold us to it?
Anyway, this issue is representative of why we have all the various denominations in the Christian faith. Instead of just believing in the ‘core’ of Christianity, people feel that they have to tack things onto it.
But just because something works for you, or because you feel led to live your life in a certain way, doesn’t mean that God wants everyone to do the same thing. Our walk is a personal walk. No one else’s is the same. Yes, we should surround ourselves with fellow believers who have either walked a similar road, or who are currently walking that road. And I suppose that’s what organized religion, or any denomination for that matter, offers. A chance to commune with like-minded individuals.
However, there’s a problem when it becomes so structured and ‘organized’ that it won’t allow you to marry a fellow Christian because they’re not Orthodox.
This is the same crap that Paul ran into with the early Church, and it’s continuing 2,000 years later! We don’t learn!
So first of all, James, I’m sorry if I’ve caused you to question your faith, or rather your interest and acceptance of the Orthodoxy.
Granted, I’m not Orthodox, but my advice to you is seek out the advice of your church leaders, see if you can email someone even higher up than them, and most importantly, pray about it.
As I mentioned earlier, I believe that it all comes down to the way that you’re willing to interpret it. Even Katie said that it was possible to marry a non-Orthodox person, and her father is a priest. I think she would know.
Again, I apologize for stirring this up.
Stroll on over and visit James
March 1, 2007
Mr. Hibbity Gibbity, I don’t think you have anything to apologize for. I am rather thin skinned and let it get out of hand.
Stroll on over and visit Dwayne
February 24, 2008
What do think the percentagfe of those that actually make it with an inter-faith marriage versus thos who do not and for this specific reason?